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Within the days after the election, Consultant Ritchie Torres, who represents a district within the Bronx, piled onto the complaints about his celebration. He argued they’re too aware of the “far left” and have “managed to alienate historic numbers of Latinos.” They had been spouting “ivory-towered nonsense” that the working class wasn’t shopping for. As a sequence of tweets, the idea is superficial. Kamala Harris—and even Joe Biden—haven’t been particularly beholden to the far left, both of their insurance policies or of their presentation. Harris didn’t lean into her id almost as a lot as, say, Hillary Clinton did in her marketing campaign. And Bidenomics was aimed on the working and center class.
However Torres’s conviction, it seems, comes from a deeper place. Torres is 36, Afro Latino, and represents a district that’s greater than 50 p.c Latino and dealing class to poor. He grew up poor himself and didn’t graduate from school. It’s by now a really outdated stereotype, he says, to imagine that Latinos are pro-immigration. In his expertise, the notion of New York being overrun by undocumented immigrants is a preoccupation amongst his constituents, and ignoring their worries about this difficulty, and the state of the financial system, is what he believes triggered city neighborhoods to shift rightward.
On this episode of Radio Atlantic, we hash out the “Democrats are too woke” concept and speak about Torres’s concepts of how the Democrats ought to change their strategy to immigration.
The next is a transcript of the episode:
Hanna Rosin: Donald Trump misplaced New York, like everybody thought he would. In order that’s not information. What’s, although, is how significantly better he did within the metropolis than final time. Manhattan moved to the appropriate by 5 factors, Brooklyn by six, Queens, the place I grew up, by 11—11 factors! As my Trump-voting brother bragged to me: “It was a shellacking.”
I’m Hanna Rosin. That is Radio Atlantic. New York, Miami, Chicago, Philly, Dallas, Detroit all shifted proper. Trump’s message appeared to particularly land in city, working-class neighborhoods, the place immigrants and folks of colour dwell.
Now, there are many causes the nation shifted rightward, and we’ll in all probability be speaking about them for some time. However these are neighborhoods which have voted reliably Democratic. So the shift is noticeable and stunning, though to not this individual.
Ritchie Torres: For me, the far left is a present to Donald Trump. And it will likely be the present that may carry on giving till there’s a severe reckoning with the outcomes of the election.
Rosin: That is Congressman Ritchie Torres. He represents a district within the Bronx, which, by the best way, shifted proper by 11 factors. He, like many individuals, has a concept for why Trump received.
The day after the election, he tweeted: “Donald Trump has no better good friend than the far left, which has managed to alienate historic numbers of Latinos, Blacks, Asians, and Jews from the Democratic Social gathering with absurdities like ‘Defund the Police’ or ‘From the River to the Sea’ or ‘Latinx.’ … The working class shouldn’t be shopping for the ivory-towered nonsense that the far left is promoting.”
Now, this isn’t an authentic take. A number of folks final week had been screaming on the Democrats some model of “woke is broke”—that’s how Maureen Dowd put it, not less than. However Torres has some authority on the topic that different folks lack: He’s younger—36. He’s Afro Latino. He’s homosexual. He grew up poor. And he didn’t end school.
He’s additionally a proud Democrat representing a district that’s over 50 p.c Latino. To him, what occurred appears fairly apparent.
Torres: You realize, the principle cause we misplaced was inflation and immigration. And as regards to immigration, I do consider we swung the pendulum too far to the left.
Rosin: After I consider Kamala Harris, I don’t essentially suppose far left. I imply, she talked about being a prosecutor. She was measured on her Israel-Gaza positions. Her place on the border acquired extra average. So far left doesn’t essentially, to me, describe what occurred within the final election.
Torres: I’m not suggesting that Kamala Harris is much left. So take for instance, “defund the police.” It was by no means the case that almost all of the Democratic Social gathering endorsed “defund the police,” however the far left has an outsized microphone and, subsequently, has an outsized affect in defining the picture of the Democratic Social gathering within the public thoughts.
Rosin: And also you don’t suppose that’s as a result of the far left is exaggerated by the appropriate? I imply, that the appropriate has a megaphone making it appear to be the far left is the Democratic Social gathering when neither Kamala Harris nor Joe Biden are particularly far left or advocate far-left insurance policies?
Torres: Are you able to make that argument with respect to immigration?
Rosin: Yeah, immigration is an exception. You’re proper about that. I imply, I used to be enthusiastic about—
Torres: It’s the exception that price us the election.
Rosin: Yeah. I used to be enthusiastic about working-class insurance policies as a result of if I take into consideration precise insurance policies—since you discuss quite a bit about insurance policies versus messaging—
Torres: We’ve got prosecutors in America who’ve swung the pendulum too far to the left and have been rejected by voters in blue states.
Rosin: Mm-hmm.
Torres: So we are able to blame the voters. We will declare that the voters are misogynist and white supremacist. We might blame Fox Information and the New York Submit. However these establishments have all the time been with us in current political historical past.
Rosin: Though by no means as mobilized as they’re now. I imply, there’s a concerted effort to make the Democrats appear to be its most excessive model, and that effort is properly funded, properly coordinated, and really efficient.
Torres: I’ll take an instance of the problem of Israel, proper? I’m recognized to be strongly pro-Israel.
Rosin: Proper.
Torres: There’s not a Republican within the nation that would caricature me as anti- Israel as a result of I make it crystal clear the place I stand. And rule No. 1 in politics is: If you don’t outline clearly what you stand for, others will outline it for you. And I typically really feel just like the picture of the celebration is outlined not by the middle left, which is the center of the celebration, however both by the far proper, within the type of the New York Submit and Fox Information, or the far left.
Rosin: So the place do you stand? What would you say publicly and loudly about the place the Democratic Social gathering must be?
Torres: The Democratic Social gathering ought to cease pandering to a far left that’s much more consultant of Twitter and TikTok than it’s of the true world. And it ought to begin listening to working-class folks of colour. And we’ve to take positions which are aligned with the priorities of working-class folks of colour.
Look—take the problem of immigration. I’m strongly pro-immigration. For me, the extra the merrier. I see immigration as the motive force of entrepreneurial and the important workforce of America. However I’m additionally self-aware sufficient to know that I’m significantly to the left of the nation. And you need to meet folks the place they’re.
You can not impose your ideology on the vast majority of the American folks. You realize, as elected officers, we’re constrained by public opinion.
Rosin: This rightward drift we now know in New York occurred in Washington Heights, the West Bronx, Queens, which is the place I grew up. It’s working-class communities of colour. So how do you clarify that? Is all of it immigration? What’s that?
Torres: Look—for me, what was most troubling was not solely the truth that Donald Trump received however how he received. Not solely did he crack the blue wall within the industrial Midwest, however he’s starting to crack the blue wall in city America. You realize, he got here inside 5 factors of profitable New Jersey.
Rosin: Proper.
Torres: He got here inside 12 factors of profitable New York. He received almost 30 p.c of the vote within the Bronx, which is without doubt one of the most Democratic and Latino counties in America. And take into account that the tendencies that we’re seeing unfold lengthy predate the 2024 election. Donald Trump made inroads amongst voters of colour, notably Latinos, within the 2020 election. And he decisively constructed on these good points within the 2024 election, however he didn’t start these good points within the 2024 election.
Rosin: So that you suppose it’s police and immigration?
Torres: The primary cause is inflation and immigration and public security. However as regards to inflation, we had been a sufferer of circumstances—like, supply-chain disruptions throughout COVID led to excessive inflation. And whenever you’re the incumbent celebration in energy, you’re blamed for what occurs, pretty or unfairly. And to be blamed for inflation is a political dying sentence. In order that, to me, shouldn’t be the fault of the celebration. Inflation is a worldwide phenomenon with world causes. However immigration is totally different. I do really feel there was political malpractice that led to our lack of credibility on the problem of immigration.
You realize, since 2022, there was an unprecedented wave of migration, whose affect was felt not solely on the border however in cities like New York, the place the shelter system and the social security web and municipal funds had been fully overwhelmed. You realize, in December of 2023, Quinnipiac reported that 85 p.c of New Yorkers had been involved in regards to the affect of the migrant disaster on New York Metropolis.
Regardless of clear indicators of well-liked discontent, the Biden administration waited two and a half years earlier than issuing an govt order regulating migration on the border. And by then it was too late. The political harm had been carried out. The Republicans had efficiently weaponized the problem towards us.
Rosin: Okay. That is useful. Your critiques come throughout on Twitter as broad critiques, the form of common, broad critique that we don’t converse to the working class. And there are elements of that that don’t completely make sense to me, however I feel you’re narrowing that to a few particular and necessary points.
Torres: Properly, I feel if you happen to—first, it’s Twitter, so I’m constrained by the boundaries of tweets. However I’d suggest that you just learn all of the commentary I’ve made, not merely one tweet that gained greater than 3 million views. The primary tweet I despatched out was about simply the sophisticated electoral atmosphere that we had been getting into.
Vice President Harris was at a structural drawback in an antiestablishment ambiance. Nearly all of People disapproved of the Biden administration. Nearly all of People really feel that America is on the mistaken observe or heading within the mistaken course. And the vast majority of People really feel that they’re worse off right now than they had been 4 years in the past.
That’s an insurmountable problem, irrespective of who’s the nominee, proper? It’s about structural actuality moderately than particular person persona. Now, we thought that Donald Trump was so radioactive that we might overcome that structural problem, and we had been mistaken.
Rosin: Did you suppose that, by the best way? Did you additionally suppose that? Like, had been you shocked?
Torres: I’m shocked however not shocked. Like, I discover Donald Trump’s victory to be stunning however not stunning, as a result of, in current electoral historical past, there isn’t any precedent for an incumbent celebration profitable a presidential election when greater than 70 p.c of People suppose the nation is on the mistaken observe or headed within the mistaken course. And so ultimately, it’s not stunning that Trump fatigue was outweighed by the favored discontent over inflation and immigration.
Rosin: After the break, I ask Torres how he thinks Democrats can rebuild after this loss.
[Break]
Rosin: Okay. So let’s flip to rebuilding. It appears genuinely tough in 2024 to compile a Democratic Social gathering that’s working-class voters plus city, college-educated, largely white liberals. Do you’ve gotten any concepts or ideas about the way to stick these two coalitions collectively?
Torres: I’d look to New York as successful. I imply, New York was a profound disappointment in 2022. You realize, Lee Zeldin was masterful at weaponizing the phrases of the far left towards the Democratic Social gathering, inflicting congressional losses in 2022. However in 2024, we had a powerful success.
We took again almost all of the congressional seats that we had misplaced. We ran on the power of sturdy candidates like Laura Gillen and Tom Suozzi and Josh Riley and Pat Ryan. And the widespread thread amongst all of them is that all of them is a centrist or center-left Democrat. So for me, the lesson discovered there’s that the street to 270 electoral votes and the street to the congressional majority runs via middle left, not the far left.
Rosin: And may you say what middle left appears like? What’s a center-left Democrat speaking about? Are they speaking about particular constituent points? What does it seem like to be responsive?
Torres: Economically populist, proper? We’ve got to convey the sense that we’re preventing for working folks and that we’re holding highly effective pursuits accountable, proper? And I feel that’s the place the left is onto one thing, proper? I feel what we must always keep away from are the excesses on points like immigration or public security, proper?
There must be nothing resembling “defund the police,” nothing resembling open borders. Individuals do care about border safety. Individuals do care about public security. We’ve got to make sure that we’re on the middle of these points whereas doubling down on financial populism.
Rosin: So weirdly, on a nationwide stage, like an Elizabeth Warren-ish message, it appears like what you’re speaking about. So once I consider actual options to working-class issues, I consider breaking apart monopolies, actual sturdy shopper protections. However these are big-government insurance policies, and big-government insurance policies will not be that well-liked. That strategy doesn’t appear to essentially acquire traction, regardless that it looks like the appropriate coverage resolution.
Torres: A lot of politics is rhetorical, and I simply really feel like we’ve to present folks the sense that we’re preventing for them, proper? And too typically, folks have the impression that we’re obsessive about a tradition struggle. However I need to be clear: I proceed to consider the principle causes we misplaced the election had been inflation and immigration. And I disagree with Bernie Sanders’ critique. I don’t suppose President Biden deserted the working class. Laws just like the Inflation Discount Act is supposed to help working folks. It’s meant to help America, however the advantages of the laws within the brief time period are outweighed by the price of inflation.
Rosin: So are you able to say how you’ll speak about immigration or tackle immigration? As a result of for people who find themselves not trying too intently, it feels somewhat counterintuitive that, you understand, a majority say—Latino or people-of-color districts and voting class—their fundamental difficulty is restrictions on immigration. It appears, on its face, to be a contradiction. Now, I’m positive whenever you get deeper, it isn’t.
Torres: Should you’re stereotyping Latinos, positive.
Rosin: Yeah, precisely. So let’s get beneath the stereotype, and, like, how would you stroll via that difficulty?
Torres: Properly, I imply, take into account that essentially the most Latino county in America was Starr County, proper on the border. In 2016, Hillary Clinton received it by 60 share factors. And in 2024, Donald Trump received almost 60 p.c—a whole collapse of Latino help. Look—my view is that we do not need a messaging downside; we’ve a actuality downside.
When the migrant disaster was unfolding, we must always have responded with the sense of urgency that the general public demanded of us. The general public noticed it as a disaster. So it’s not a messaging downside. It’s a actuality downside. When there’s a disaster, when there’s an emergency, when there’s a metaphorical hearth, we’ve to extinguish the hearth. We’ve got to do every part we are able to to extinguish the hearth, or else we’re going to pay a worth on the poll field.
Rosin: Though, it nonetheless surprises me that individuals would drift in direction of a pacesetter who makes use of phrases like “mass deportation,” you understand, or the entire “floating island of rubbish” factor. Like, it nonetheless surprises me that that’s not an automated “no.”
Torres: Once more, I’m appalled by it, however I’m self-aware sufficient to acknowledge that I’m significantly to the left of the remainder of the nation in immigration. And right here’s the hazard: If we swing the pendulum too far to the left on points like immigration and public security, we’ll danger a public response that may make our nation extra proper wing, not much less; extra restrictionist on immigration, not much less; extra conservative on public security, not much less.
Rosin: Acquired it. Okay. That is smart. So how do you—
Torres: I simply need to illustrate this level additional: Earlier than the “defund the police” motion, Republicans had been changing into extra open to criminal-justice reform, proper? Hakeem Jeffries, who’s going to be, finally, the speaker of the Home, negotiated a bipartisan criminal-justice-reform laws. After which after the “defund the police” motion, any hope of bipartisanship on felony justice has all however collapsed.
Rosin: I see. So that is what you imply. You’re saying, The Democrats are permitting—or, by capitulating to some far-left language, are permitting—the Republicans to make use of the language towards us. Like, they’re handing them a instrument.
Okay. I perceive what you’re saying. Simply as a mannequin, are you able to simply inform me the way you discuss to your constituents about immigration? So we all know what your personal private emotions are. We all know that you just’re listening to what they’re saying. What’s the form of language that the Democrats might have adopted and may undertake sooner or later a few sensitive difficulty like immigration?
Torres: I’m not clear the problem is language. I imply, I’m completely happy to reply the query, however I—
Rosin: What sort of insurance policies? Sorry. Sure, you’re proper. What sort of insurance policies?
Torres: I imply, fundamental border safety.
Rosin: Simply speak about that. Yeah.
Torres: Like, so you can’t have a system the place anybody anyplace can cross the border, declare asylum, after which stay right here indefinitely.
Rosin: Proper.
Torres: And there was some extent at which the sheer variety of folks coming grew to become overwhelming. Like, it put unprecedented pressure on the shelter system and social security web of New York Metropolis. And, you understand, I do know Mayor Adams got here beneath extreme criticism for excoriating the administration. However for me, the issue was not Mayor Adams complaining in regards to the migrant disaster; the issue was the truth of the migrant disaster and the administration’s failure to handle it with the urgency that the general public demanded.
Look—I really feel if we return to the middle left on each immigration and public security, I’m cautiously optimistic that communities of colour will naturally gravitate towards the Democratic Social gathering as its pure residence. That’s my perception.
Rosin: Proper.
Torres: We’ve got to fulfill folks the place they’re, or there’s a restrict to how far we are able to deviate from strongly held public sentiment on a difficulty like immigration.
Rosin: Last item I need to say is: Disinformation appears overwhelming—like, simply overwhelming in a really, very coordinated approach. How do you fight one thing like that? Like, it doesn’t matter what you’ll say on immigration, there’ll be a disinformation marketing campaign to skew it, flip it, no matter.
Torres: Look—we do our greatest to talk out towards disinformation, however I’m in all probability within the minority right here. I’m not satisfied we misplaced due to disinformation.
Like, if you happen to take away inflation and immigration from the desk, we win the election. We win the election as a result of Donald Trump’s web favorability has been chronically underwater. He’s unpopular amongst most People, however he was seen as a change agent, as a substitute for a established order marked by inflation and the migrant disaster. Should you change the established order, he not wins the election. That’s my perception.
Rosin: Okay. All proper. This has been actually, actually useful. I actually recognize this. Thanks.
Torres: After all.
Rosin: This episode of Radio Atlantic was produced by Kevin Townsend and edited by Claudine Ebeid. It was engineered by Rob Smierciak. Claudine Ebeid is the chief producer of Atlantic audio, and Andrea Valdez is our managing editor. I’m Hanna Rosin. Thanks for listening.
